Comments on: Big Trouble in Little Tipi

By: jeremiyah

jeremiyah — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:07:30 +0000

urban scout,

You might join; http://groups.yahoo.com/group/moderntipi/?yguid=72943789

and; http://groups.yahoo.com/group/year_round_tipi/?yguid=72943789

in the latter is a photo album; http://groups.yahoo.com/group/year_round_tipi/photos/album/1669742168/pic/list, and in it is; http://groups.yahoo.com/group/year_round_tipi/photos/album/1669742168/pic/1774590221/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc. There are pics of a permanent DFH exhausting smoke outside the tipi. In the message section of both is a verbal description of a Dakota Fire Hole which will exhaust smoke out underground, so there will be no smoke at all inside.
Yes, if you want an open, “normal” fire, you absolutely need a liner; that is what creates a chimney out of compressed, cool air using the venturi principle of compressing and speeding up air.
The other factor is that the size of “tipi” is a child size, very small “toy” tipi. Other than the small size, it looks nice, ie normal, but without a liner, it is not a “real” tipi.
Other than that, you have some good ideas; keep it up.

Jerry

By: Red Elk

Red Elk — Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:00:30 +0000

‘Brother’; I have loived in both a 16 n 20 ft. tipi yr. round. Own those n a 8′ I have weatherd out DEEP snows n 42 degrees F, many many rains, Hi winds, etc..
Im 5′5b 1/2′ tall. The 8 to small 4 me but fine 4 r grandson. 16 Great 4 “move about”, as well as SLEEP rm for7 + gear. We’ve had 22 in it 4 “party” songfest (not sleep). I now own a 26′ as well. TO HARD TO ERECT ALONE n POLES DIFF. to “pack” (I like LONG poles). NEVER ERECTED IT!
ALL mine r “top o the line” NOMADICs’. EACH (even the has Top o The Line LINERS. 2 have OZONES as well. These I’ve “exspanded” in winter with SILVER Lite Wt. REFLETORS. This “Ceiling” bounces back the heat from the fire. NICE! (OZONEs r Inner CEILINGS, folks).
My pit too “air from outside pipe…WITH a BAFFEL to give MORE air or less, as needed.
My poles r TREATED via Verithane (2 coats, Gloss). Look nice even after a # opf yrs use.
My pit (in the 22) large enough 4 both a small wood/cook stove N open fire (as wanted). Smoke Stack has a FINE Metel “Mash” atop…dos NOT go through poles but TOO the appex. A Spark Arrestore, n very wise in asreas I use (deep forests). My PIT fire coverd by the same when not useing the stove. Remember; SPARKS CAN CAUSE A DANGERIOUS PROBLEM.

Changes Ive made to all is ADDING a Cloth “Screen” at doorway N DOUBLE Canvis DOORS. Screening keeps out insects. Double door allows INSIDE one 2 b shut without “pinning” n unpining the outside wone constentl. Aho? (understand….).

I am not happy with ANY of my liners. So will b adding 10 more inces to thier bases. ALLOWING MORE Floor Leangth to bput things on n keep Hi winds from invadeing. NO “DRAFTS” at unwanted times. These will b of VINIL LESS ROT to bases. (These bases DO rot over time).
I add WILLOW “cross sticks” on the INSIDE of liners to hold back Liner “Bulging”. Pressing in2 ground n tyed to the poles. A WONDER$FULL look N MORE RM. at Set Down / Sleep edge inside.

I will b adding Fine Metel SCREENING to the “Smoke Hole” opening…less bugs / even more “Spart Stoping). Allso n “A” Frame DOORWAY COVER. A “Purch Roof” in a sence. Ive seen this at a Pow Wow n fits snug to the cover “wall”. “Mud” “Rm”…Gear rm.. Aho?
On more “Permint” sites I trench DEEPLY around the outside…makeing sure water drains AWAY. I allso use a RUG as Flooring. REALY NICE TO STAND ON in below 0 degrees!

In winter I raise a 5 ft (Old TiPi “cut off”)) “Wall…n pack it with Fir limbs / dead grasses / leaves n stray. EXSTRA Insalation! GREAT to do in “perminit”. My LINER allso STRAW Insalated. Aho?

Have I “problems”? YES! Trenched TO SHALLOW n a roaring TURENT passing through my abode! Make SURE ur 2 SHOVEL HEADS DEEP! Fill the trech with Rd. Gravel so u dont trip! (Ive learned both, the hard way).

In my 22, I DOUBLED UP Porch Bambo “wind breaks” n tyed accross inside back poles…streaching accross 3. This is / was my “Bathrm. n Utility rm). Wood ASH kept the stench GONE. A 5 gal. bucket with Camp Tolit seat the “pot”. Lined with 5 gal. trach bag. Tyend n Untyed after use, till “full enough” to remove. Aho? In summer I used a TRECH Tolit away from the TiPi.
ALWAYS Covering the “spot” with earth after each “use”. Aho?
SOLOR Hot Water bags (2) heated in the sun my “shower”. Hulla Hoop saspended from a tree limf n shower curtin hung on that (privicy). I also have slated wood flooring inside.

TiPi liveing can b fun…or misserabel. Its realy up to u.

For “perminit” Id go no less then an 18 ft.er. I, n MANY OTHERS loved my 22. Even had police stop to look. (One bought a 16 4 his college son to live in in the back yrd when home between school breaks). N older (50s) couple laughed at me for “Tent Liveing”…till they droped in one day (winter) n smelled the new STRAW n CEDER Brows between the Liner n Cover…the sweet smell of Wood Smoke n INSIDE “Fancyness”…then they LITTERLY BEGED ME to RENT IT FOR A WK.END! (Diodnt, no where eles to go).
MY WIFE dos NOT LIKE TIPI LIVEING. Has to have her Sq. Box n all it contains. Hi Tec “stuff”. I, on the other hand, used firewood logs to make n “entertaiment center”…Books, CB set n raido. Charged the Batt. from the car.

Finil Advice; Get a SRONG ROPE n tye from Apex n down to “Cross Sticks” baryed close to the Pit. DEEP. Helps then to hold the whole affaid down in the HIGH winds incounterd!

To sleep in a TiPi (larg) is like sleepimng on n old sailing ship…Poles “creak”, Canvis of a muffeled “snap”. With lightning overhead…WOW!

I dont use a “Stick Cover” at top of poles at all. Just snug up the flaps n lite a fire. “Drips” turn to Lite STEAM befort they hit the ground. Adding to the “Flaver” of liveing inside one of theee. I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF, or SEEN an “Umbralla” OVER POLE TOPS to “stop rain”. I think its a Whit Mans idia. (May b wrong). Basicly just TO DANDIFFICULT TO GET ON! Aho?

A “problem”, especily in cold mounths, r BARROWING RODENTS! Ur area inside is WARM…n they sure like THAT! Many times Ive been awaken by a gopher / etc. heaveing up thier tunnel dirt under me. I simply give they “going to” place a swift side-o-fist…pressing thier soil onto them. Not enough to kill but SURE MAKES UM RUN! (: Good 4 the nite at least!
Plan ur Space well inside WELL. U cant have LIVEING Rm n a MASS of “Things” in one of these! Not if u intend to use it more then a wk.nd. Old “logh” firewood, unsplie, makes decent “seats”. Funtons r SUPER as couch N bed. Store “things” under / behind. Use Sq. Plastic containers for clothng / etc.. RODENT / BUG n DAMP Proof. WORTH THE INSETMENT!

I use n ESKAMO “Candel” with tin reflector as “light”.

To those that laugh…i pity YOU! Go to ur “box” n pay ur “box” utilitys / etc.. Ur welcome to it! Has its “comforts” (have one) but inslaves u to “others”. So, Laugh…Im FREE! (:

Red Elk

By: Urban Scout

Urban Scout — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 05:05:59 +0000

Cool website man! Yeah, the liner didn’t go all the way up. But the Tipi was just waaaaay too small… and I could never figure out the wind flaps.

By: David (Hairy Medicinewolf) Austin

David (Hairy Medicinewolf) Austin — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 14:27:32 +0000

I built a small tipi for a friend using a scaled down pattern from “The Indian Tipi” It was a 9 footer. Because it’s so small the standard height liner didn’t work well. So we made a short liner…48″ fabric..with the 8″ fold to lay an the ground it made for a 40″ liner and that was still too tall but it worked. If you made your wool liner to fit all the way to the top…or close to the top…it won’t work like it should. Don Strinz (he makes tipis) says that the tipi works like a vacumn through venturi action. Air blowing across the smokeflaps causes air to suck in around the bottom of the tipi and rise up the liner. It then pulls to the center due to the heat from the fire…hot air rises…the venturi action pulls the air and smoke out the smokehole. Adjusting the smokeflaps to changing wind conditions keeps the vacumm working. Air pulls in from the base…rises up the liner…pulls to the center…mixes with the smoke and hot air and out the smokehole. With a short liner you need to be spending your time sitting or laying down. Some tribes made a very short liner…18 to 24″…just enough to keep the air off your back.
Wool blankets…hmmm…part of the reason scraped buffalo hides were used was to have a smooth surface for the air to rise…same with canvas…smooth surface..wool isn’t all that smooth. The liner doesn’t have to be sewn from canvas….make it pretty…get colored fabric from the dollar pile at wallyworld.

By: Misko

Misko — Wed, 28 May 2008 16:54:20 +0000

I/we had two teepees, that my wife and I had made. The first, where our son was conceived (too much information!), we had made out of one piece, no sewing needed. It was about 16-17 feet in diameter. We cut it out of some kind of synthetic and extremely tough material, but quite porous. So to make it waterproof wasn’t easy. It is what the paper mills use to let the paper pulp drain itself on. The second one we made with sewn strips of canvas just like the ones sold on the market. The canvas one was also about 17 feet diameter and although the fabric had been treated against mildew, it only took a few months and the teepee was spotted almost all over.

I doubt that the plains peoples had that problem though with theirs made of buffalo hides. The other thing to consider is that when a person or family constantly lives in one, it gets really smoked out
and that probably helps prevent mildew and I know for a fact that it improves a hell of alot its “waterproofness”. One thing that can be done is to install the teepee cover inside out on the poles and close
it as much as possible, and then smudge the hell out of it! It will definitely make it waterproof.

One thing I’d like to add is the importance of “rain pins”. Now those can make the difference between a whole night sleep and one where you constantly get bombarded with raindrops on your face. Rain pins are
simply small pegs about the size of a cigarette or bigger. They are placed on the “in” side (facing the fire) of each pole, between the rope that holds the liner (lining) and the pole. Two on each pole. The idea is to let the rain drops travel all the way down to the ground instead of dropping on your face because of the liner rope blocking its way. So you leave more or less a couple inches between both pegs. And if ever you encounter a rebelious rain drop(s), simply use a feather or finger and help it(them) make its way down, then the rest will take the same track.

Smoke was something. I never did master that part. I was doing ok but I’m sure there was still room for improvement. Lack of experience, or I.Q., I don’t know!

The first teepee we made, we (wife and I) lived in it for 10 weeks during the summer of 1999. It was great.

There is something about living in a circular lodge…and hearing and smelling all that goes on around…

I had a Yurt for a while and that was very comfortable. I had a small wood stove in it. It’s warm in winter. I’d live in one the rest of my life no problem. Just make sure you anchor the roof material with ropes to the ground real well because it tends to catch the wind much more than a teepee cover. I’ve experienced it!

Now we’re living in a urban environment after about 13 years in rural areas (long story)…but we’re adapting or resisting and keeping “some” sanity inspite of the civilized surroundings.

Later alligators
Misko

By: Urban Scout

Urban Scout — Wed, 28 May 2008 14:44:05 +0000

Haha, no offense taken. I know it’s a toy. I thought I could make do.

By: Mark

Mark — Wed, 28 May 2008 04:59:50 +0000

Hi urbanscout, i think i would just use the one you have for supplies, and build a new one from scratch. I built a 16 footer and have been using it for over 10 years and its just as good today. I dont want to offend you but what you have is a toy. Best of luck

Mark
Australia

By: Urban Scout

Urban Scout — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 06:37:09 +0000

Hey Dragon Daze! THanks for the feedback. Unfortunately, it came a little late…

I piped in air, and it still wasn’t enough. Check out this blog I wrote about the Tipi’s demise:

http://www.urbanscout.org/week8-tipi-or-not-tipi/

By: DragonDaze

DragonDaze — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 06:23:42 +0000

1. What should I use to pipe in air?
(A)recycled materials such as rain conductor or water heater vent pipe.

2. What should I do about the smoke hole flaps?
(A) smoke flaps usually have sockets for sticks/poles. Insert poles into sockets and adjust till you get a happy medium between draft and weather protection. The “smoke poles”usually cross behind the lodge.

3. How well insulated will it be?
(A) with a proper liner and a small fire,you’ll be quite comfortable.

4. Was the wool the right choice?
(A) Paint stores have canvas runners available cheap. Its your best bet.
Leave ground space at the bottom of your cover and install the liner tight to the ground.
Also tilt your cover back,in the picture the lodge is too upright.
Save the wool to insulate you from the ground.
(Q)Where can i get a little lodge like that?

By: boygasm

boygasm — Wed, 01 Aug 2007 19:06:15 +0000

Camping tents are available for less than 15 dollars and can easily fit around 5 people. They are small, and easy to transport. Its almost like a tote that you can carry on your back.

By: boygasm

boygasm — Wed, 01 Aug 2007 19:05:00 +0000

I would suggest purchasing a small camping tent, that is available anywhere for less than 15 dollars. Walmart or Pamida does supply them. Or whatever you prefer to get them at. They can easily hold less than 4 people and they are flamable proof. They are more easier to use today than it was in the last 10 years. They made the rods easeir to assemble, and sometimes you can find ones that opens itself automatically like foldables ones. Those are useful and small that can be carried anyewhere you take trips to.

By: Rix

Rix — Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:20:50 +0000

I like the trench/cover/bark roll idea for the piping. But as far as portability goes, PVC (that white plastic pipe that poor kids use for pretend light sabers) is really light-weight. If you don’t want to pay for it (I imagine it’s pretty cheap by the foot or yard at your local hardware store), then I’m sure you can find some in dumpsters or at the dump. If you need something fast, though, use anything hollow and long enough to reach from your fire to the outside: chainlink fence posts, vacuum cleaner attachments, vacuum cleaner hoses, garden hose, etc.

I would think the piping is pretty important in a small space not only to keep the fire going, but also to cut down on the amount of carbon monoxide the fire produces. The better its oxygen supply, the more CO2 it produces and the less CO it produces.

Love the umbrella idea.

By: Curt

Curt — Thu, 25 Jan 2007 21:47:13 +0000

Keep up the great writing and work, Scout! I always enjoy hearing what you and your readers have to say.

Thank you,

Curt

By: Albert Day

Albert Day — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 14:07:12 +0000

Instead of saying “i think squirrels…” I know squirrels & rabbit hide are to thin. MORE CONFIDENCE

By: Urban Scout

Urban Scout — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 06:03:58 +0000

Oh yeah, I have heard of those guys. They’re called meat heads. I’d love it if you carried my tipi.

By: LackeyScout

LackeyScout — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 04:37:05 +0000

Ever hear about those guys who walked 80 miles a day with 100 pounds on their back? I’ll carry the fucking Tipi. Pussy.

By: Devin

Devin — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 20:25:39 +0000

The pipe is for air ventilation so that the fire burns cleaner and hotter, although if your tipi is flooding I imagine it would drain water too. Haha.

- Devin

By: martha

martha — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 19:13:08 +0000

I guess I’m kinda confused as to what the pipe is actually for. Water drainage? I’m having a hard time getting a mental picture of what you’re talking about. I have heard of people in the olden days making pipes out of cedar! Of course that would be really labor intensive. But man what an amazing wood!

By: Devin

Devin — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 17:32:24 +0000

Oh my god, attack of the run-on paragraph!! I just wanted to chime in with her suggestion on digging a narrow trench and covering that with something flat, you don’t really have to have a pipe. At Teaching Drum they used a trench and put in some rolls of birch bark for their tubing. Worked pretty well. And of course finding a pipe would work too, I imagine you could find some at a dump somewhere.

If you do use an umbrella, take pictures. That’s too funny.

By: PennyScout

PennyScout — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 17:10:40 +0000

hmmm. yeah tipi living can be complicated. i don’t use mine much to be honest. it’s huge so i don’t have the smoke problem. i always make sure to burn nice dry hardwoods though just in case. So since it is really rainy there you’ll want to stock wood in advance and keep it/let it dry. Also a slightly larger fire seems to burn better and smoke less, but you probably don’t have much room for that. i would guess that with the liner your tipi will be very warm when you have a fire inside no matter what the temperature outside, hot even. Throw a blanket over the hole and pour some water on the fire rocks and you’ll have a sweatlodge. I don’t know if wool was the right choice but it sounds alright. I have wool sweaters that have turned funny colors next to the fire, but who cares about that. If you cant find a pipe what if you dig a little trench and cover it with something flat like a scrap of plywood or shale stones and put the dirt back on top. I’m not sure about the smoke hole flaps, since I can’t see the problem. First get long enough sticks which go in the upper corners, right? Then in the lower corners tie a rope that you tie off somewhere in front of the tipi. Look at the bottom picture on this site: http://www.tipi.com. Mine never look that nice. My tipi never looks that nice. But I think it is okay if they sag a little. I made my own tipi poles. I would caution that they have small tops in diameter where they come together so the smoke hole doesn’t get gigantic and let in rain. Also they should be as straight and smooth as possible or the water running down will drip of any rough points or knotholes. Hardly any of my poles are pines. My dad helped and we did some illegal “timber stand improvement” in areas of crowded birch saplings in the national forest, haha. Anything straight will do. You’ll want to peel the bark off of the poles. This is most easily done in the spring, though in my experience throughout the whole summer as well, and any day it gets warm and the sap might be running which around here usaully starts Feb., but with global warming let’s say anytime goes. If the bark is really peeling you don’t need anything more than a butter knife to get it started, then you can use your hands. If it is not a draw knife works best. You can save the long peels of bark to make cordage. Some rain is to be expected but if too much rain coming in the hole becomes a problem there is something called a “missouri rain cap” that is like an umbrella that goes over all of the ends of the poles and anchors to the ground. With the size of your tipi you could probably just use a real umbrella for this, a beach umbrella at least. maybe one with some pineapples on it. My tipi has a lot of mildew stains after just two years. To slow this process down when choosing spots to put the tipi I would try and choose the sunniest. Mildew hates sun.