Comments on: Bureaucracy Vs. Rewilding http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/ Hunter-Gatherer Wannabe With A Blog Sat, 22 Nov 2008 06:12:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Natures Bounty… Hunters! | Urban Scout: Rewilding Cascadia http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-21424 Natures Bounty… Hunters! | Urban Scout: Rewilding Cascadia Sun, 19 Oct 2008 08:11:21 +0000 http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-21424 [...] kill millions of salmon every year. They said it, not me. And yet, who takes the wrap? First the sea lions, now the pikeminnow!?! Anyone but us! I love how experts *think* that. What experts? Who *thinks* [...] […] kill millions of salmon every year. They said it, not me. And yet, who takes the wrap? First the sea lions, now the pikeminnow!?! Anyone but us! I love how experts *think* that. What experts? Who *thinks* […]

]]> By: Billy http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-16574 Billy Fri, 15 Aug 2008 06:28:52 +0000 http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-16574 This subject of salmon and the dams on the Columbia was one of the main reasons that my wife and I did not turn the electricity on in this house when we moved into it in 1989. It was fully wired and hooked up to the grid. All we had to do was turn it on. We had already lived without electricity since 1981 so it wasn't hard to continue. I figured if I was going to pray for the dams to go, (and I seriously was) I should not be supporting their existence by buying the power they produce. Back in the early 90's I went to a pow wow in Grand Coulee that was part of the celebration of some anniversary of the completion of Grand Coulee dam (Ha ha). They had elders get up and talk about the effect of the dam on the Interior Salish and other salmon people on the Columbia. They talked about the destruction of their burial sites and traditional food and medicine gathering areas and of course the destruction of one their most important food sources, salmon. Also the cultural significance of the salmon to the people. It really inspired me to keep the electricity turned off. After over twenty years of carrying our drinking water from a creek, catching rain water and melting snow for washing, our creek started to run dry in the summer months. We started having to haul water in barrels from town for a couple of months each year. Snow started coming later so we were left with cold temperatures but no snow to melt so we had to haul water in November too. We finally got a well drilled but alas it is deep enough that it requires power to get the water, so we caved in and turned on the electricity. Now here I sit at a computer at 11:00 o'clock at night. I would never have been up at this time in my off the grid days. There were many times back then when I asked myself why do I live like this when hardly anybody else (even those who say "the dams must go") would turn off their power to back up their talk? But it's not about them is it. It's about us. Do we really want the dams to go? Does it just sound cool? It's pretty easy to rabble rouse about something that we aren't even willing to put our money where our mouth is about. If the dams go, that means the shit has REALLY hit the fan. So of course we'll all be in the same boat with no electricity but what about now. Doesn't integrity have something to do with this? Doesn't making a commitment to being something different have a place here and now not just down the road when the shit hits the fan and there's no choice? I don't mean to start this whole "walk the talk" thing again but this particular subject of the salmon and the dams is kind of a personal thing for me and I have some very strong feelings about it. Including some guilt for not holding fast to my resolve. I put it on the line for many years because of my firm belief that the dams were wrong. I get a bit testy if I think people are being flippant about this and jumping on a bandwagon of cool sounding revolutionary rhetoric. I immediately view people with suspicion who use the "dam blowing" angle to show how much of a radical they are. Scout, your story is a powerful one that illustrates where a lot of folks are at about the dams. " I need this job" "I need this money" "I need this electricity" "I need these fish" "I'm not the bad guy" "I'm just a poor working guy" and your analysis of where the real problem is is pretty much real. This subject of salmon and the dams on the Columbia was one of the main reasons that my wife and I did not turn the electricity on in this house when we moved into it in 1989. It was fully wired and hooked up to the grid. All we had to do was turn it on. We had already lived without electricity since 1981 so it wasn’t hard to continue.
I figured if I was going to pray for the dams to go, (and I seriously was) I should not be supporting their existence by buying the power they produce. Back in the early 90’s I went to a pow wow in Grand Coulee that was part of the celebration of some anniversary of the completion of Grand Coulee dam (Ha ha). They had elders get up and talk about the effect of the dam on the Interior Salish and other salmon people on the Columbia. They talked about the destruction of their burial sites and traditional food and medicine gathering areas and of course the destruction of one their most important food sources, salmon. Also the cultural significance of the salmon to the people. It really inspired me to keep the electricity turned off.
After over twenty years of carrying our drinking water from a creek, catching rain water and melting snow for washing, our creek started to run dry in the summer months. We started having to haul water in barrels from town for a couple of months each year. Snow started coming later so we were left with cold temperatures but no snow to melt so we had to haul water in November too.
We finally got a well drilled but alas it is deep enough that it requires power to get the water, so we caved in and turned on the electricity. Now here I sit at a computer at 11:00 o’clock at night. I would never have been up at this time in my off the grid days.
There were many times back then when I asked myself why do I live like this when hardly anybody else (even those who say “the dams must go”) would turn off their power to back up their talk? But it’s not about them is it. It’s about us.

Do we really want the dams to go? Does it just sound cool? It’s pretty easy to rabble rouse about something that we aren’t even willing to put our money where our mouth is about. If the dams go, that means the shit has REALLY hit the fan. So of course we’ll all be in the same boat with no electricity but what about now. Doesn’t integrity have something to do with this? Doesn’t making a commitment to being something different have a place here and now not just down the road when the shit hits the fan and there’s no choice?
I don’t mean to start this whole “walk the talk” thing again but this particular subject of the salmon and the dams is kind of a personal thing for me and I have some very strong feelings about it. Including some guilt for not holding fast to my resolve. I put it on the line for many years because of my firm belief that the dams were wrong. I get a bit testy if I think people are being flippant about this and jumping on a bandwagon of cool sounding revolutionary rhetoric. I immediately view people with suspicion who use the “dam blowing” angle to show how much of a radical they are.
Scout, your story is a powerful one that illustrates where a lot of folks are at about the dams. ” I need this job” “I need this money” “I need this electricity” “I need these fish” “I’m not the bad guy” “I’m just a poor working guy” and your analysis of where the real problem is is pretty much real.

]]> By: Cegah Satwa Punah http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-16508 Cegah Satwa Punah Thu, 14 Aug 2008 06:30:46 +0000 http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-16508 Thanks for the informative post Thanks for the informative post

]]> By: A Poem About Me | Urban Scout: Rewilding Cascadia http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-9485 A Poem About Me | Urban Scout: Rewilding Cascadia Mon, 24 Mar 2008 02:16:48 +0000 http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-9485 [...] best friend Lisa, sobbing. I had just read the latest about the sea lions. If you read my article Civilization Out Of Cascadia Now! you’ll know the story, but in short, “they” plan to kill 60 (endangered) sea [...] […] best friend Lisa, sobbing. I had just read the latest about the sea lions. If you read my article Civilization Out Of Cascadia Now! you’ll know the story, but in short, “they” plan to kill 60 (endangered) sea […]

]]> By: Urban Scout http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-9256 Urban Scout Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:38:07 +0000 http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-9256 Those are rad! Those are rad!

]]> By: Willem http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-9235 Willem Tue, 11 Mar 2008 04:09:41 +0000 http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-9235 Check it out! FREE CASCADIA BUMPER STICKERS! More specifically, FREE bumper stickers that say 'FREE CASCADIA'! http://www.cascadianow.org/mediastickers.html Check it out! FREE CASCADIA BUMPER STICKERS!

More specifically, FREE bumper stickers that say ‘FREE CASCADIA’!

http://www.cascadianow.org/mediastickers.html

]]> By: Urban Scout http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-9213 Urban Scout Sun, 09 Mar 2008 20:56:39 +0000 http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-9213 I love humans and I hope they do not die off. I hope we can reclaim our sustainable roots. Civilization is not humanity. Humanity has not treated the planet this way, just one culture of it. We are not inherently destructive. I do not wish to see the death of my species like this. I'd rather see it with the sun exploding or something like that. ;-) I love humans and I hope they do not die off. I hope we can reclaim our sustainable roots. Civilization is not humanity. Humanity has not treated the planet this way, just one culture of it. We are not inherently destructive. I do not wish to see the death of my species like this. I’d rather see it with the sun exploding or something like that. ;-)

]]> By: old_tree http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-9209 old_tree Sun, 09 Mar 2008 13:45:45 +0000 http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-9209 Hopefully nature will cough-up some nasty pathogen for a certain species reduction or the planet will simply hit the 'reset' button. We are long over due. Hopefully nature will cough-up some nasty pathogen for a certain species reduction or the planet will simply hit the ‘reset’ button. We are long over due.

]]> By: Col. Kurtz http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-9087 Col. Kurtz Tue, 04 Mar 2008 00:44:00 +0000 http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-9087 Scout, Awesome stuff bro, and hey man, humans are gonna make things a lot worse before they get better, but eventually, someday, after the last human dies, things will slowly but surely start healing, and in one blink of Times eye, every last race of humanity will have been completely, irrevocably, and thankfully erased. Humans will take some species down with them, but in the end humans will lose. Anytime you start feeling blue, just remember, someday there will be no more humans....say it with me, someday there will be no more humans.....again,... keep it up, Col. Kurtz Scout,
Awesome stuff bro, and hey man, humans are gonna make things a lot worse before they get better, but eventually, someday, after the last human dies, things will slowly but surely start healing, and in one blink of Times eye, every last race of humanity will have been completely, irrevocably, and thankfully erased. Humans will take some species down with them, but in the end humans will lose. Anytime you start feeling blue, just remember, someday there will be no more humans….say it with me, someday there will be no more humans…..again,…

keep it up,
Col. Kurtz

]]> By: grog http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-9007 grog Fri, 29 Feb 2008 00:49:55 +0000 http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-9007 present company excluded, of course:-} present company excluded, of course:-}

]]> By: grog http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-9006 grog Thu, 28 Feb 2008 23:59:04 +0000 http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-9006 Hell ya! I totally agree all you left coast shitheads go drown youselves in the cold pacific. Maybe it would provide a meal for some struggling life form;-} Hell ya! I totally agree all you left coast shitheads go drown youselves in the cold pacific. Maybe it would provide a meal for some struggling life form;-}

]]> By: Urban Scout http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-9003 Urban Scout Thu, 28 Feb 2008 22:58:45 +0000 http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-9003 Williuam, Nice. Roxanne, Thanks for your words of encouragement! I finally just opened up my comments for anyone to post... dangerous, but necessary. Lobo Victim, I know how you feel. I hope the vision of the future you described does not come to pass, but I wonder everyday Moriartyb, Thanks for the props. timeLESS, KEEP SMILING!!! ;-) Williuam,
Nice.

Roxanne,
Thanks for your words of encouragement! I finally just opened up my comments for anyone to post… dangerous, but necessary.

Lobo Victim,
I know how you feel. I hope the vision of the future you described does not come to pass, but I wonder everyday

Moriartyb,
Thanks for the props.

timeLESS,
KEEP SMILING!!! ;-)

]]> By: timeLESS http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-9001 timeLESS Thu, 28 Feb 2008 22:02:00 +0000 http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-9001 totally with you ! Right now a message is playing on TV that in 2010 50% of the dutch population will have some form of allergy. Its gonna all come down and we better take it as best we can.... keep smiling....keep smiling...... totally with you ! Right now a message is playing on TV that in 2010 50% of the dutch population will have some form of allergy. Its gonna all come down and we better take it as best we can…. keep smiling….keep smiling……

]]> By: moriartyb http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-9000 moriartyb Thu, 28 Feb 2008 21:55:55 +0000 http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-9000 Good article. Thanks for the info... Good article. Thanks for the info…

]]> By: lobo victom http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-8997 lobo victom Thu, 28 Feb 2008 20:29:47 +0000 http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-8997 This is a good first read of the day. I'm sitting at work stewing over everything. Not work itself but life & civilization and how its made me feel. I feel I'm going going crazy wanting to laugh and cry at the same time. So I thought I'd check out your website to find.... i dont know, maybe some enlightenment from some one that feels somewhat like i do. It helps a little... The problems with civilization are so vast. Todays topic, Salmon. A grim future indeed. What to do? A very good question. As you said about getting friends to agree on a movie. It will be hard to persuade them to do something about dams when you have dicks on tv blaming it on precious sea lions. I wish it were as simple as blowing up the dams ourselves. But besides being impossible, all the debris and bad shit that would be put into the water at once would probably kill off any living thing in the water anyway. This situation is a true tragedy. To kill off a species. Every species is a true masterpiece of the earth. They have evolved to live and do what they do perfectly. To destroy a whole species is a true discrace to the earth. Thinking about it. As much as we'd all like civilization fail and go away, pretend it never happened, by that point everthing will be huge ecological disaster. I like to picture nature reclaiming our cities. wildlife roaming the streets and occupying my old house. But that is just a fairytale. Once we take a couple key species out of the loop. Like the salmon. Its going to start a chain reaction. In the future I see barron cities scarring the earth as a monument for everything man became. A bunch of crazy greedy shit heads. This is a good first read of the day. I’m sitting at work stewing over everything. Not work itself but life & civilization and how its made me feel. I feel I’m going going crazy wanting to laugh and cry at the same time. So I thought I’d check out your website to find…. i dont know, maybe some enlightenment from some one that feels somewhat like i do. It helps a little… The problems with civilization are so vast. Todays topic, Salmon. A grim future indeed. What to do? A very good question. As you said about getting friends to agree on a movie. It will be hard to persuade them to do something about dams when you have dicks on tv blaming it on precious sea lions. I wish it were as simple as blowing up the dams ourselves. But besides being impossible, all the debris and bad shit that would be put into the water at once would probably kill off any living thing in the water anyway. This situation is a true tragedy. To kill off a species. Every species is a true masterpiece of the earth. They have evolved to live and do what they do perfectly. To destroy a whole species is a true discrace to the earth. Thinking about it. As much as we’d all like civilization fail and go away, pretend it never happened, by that point everthing will be huge ecological disaster. I like to picture nature reclaiming our cities. wildlife roaming the streets and occupying my old house. But that is just a fairytale. Once we take a couple key species out of the loop. Like the salmon. Its going to start a chain reaction. In the future I see barron cities scarring the earth as a monument for everything man became. A bunch of crazy greedy shit heads.

]]> By: Roxanne http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-8990 Roxanne Thu, 28 Feb 2008 11:37:54 +0000 http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-8990 Scout--Another knock-'em-the-fuck-outta-here write!!! "..In order for the salmon to survive they need to make it up the river. The dams need to go. In order for salmon to spawn they need cool and silt-free places to do so. Logging needs to stop. In order for the mature salmon to make it back to the ocean, we need commercial fishing to stop. The amount of paperwork and lobbying and funding and time needed to do that adds up to an impossibility. It feels hard enough just to get a couple of friends to agree on what movie to go see. Bureaucratic means will not save the salmon. They take too long and the salmon don’t have the time..." Thank you for sharing your confession. (And thank you for helping me set up an account here!--Finally figured it out! ;) Great first read of the day... Scout–Another knock-’em-the-fuck-outta-here write!!!
“..In order for the salmon to survive they need to make it up the river. The dams need to go. In order for salmon to spawn they need cool and silt-free places to do so. Logging needs to stop. In order for the mature salmon to make it back to the ocean, we need commercial fishing to stop. The amount of paperwork and lobbying and funding and time needed to do that adds up to an impossibility. It feels hard enough just to get a couple of friends to agree on what movie to go see. Bureaucratic means will not save the salmon. They take too long and the salmon don’t have the time…” Thank you for sharing your confession. (And thank you for helping me set up an account here!–Finally figured it out! ;) Great first read of the day…

]]> By: williaum http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-8982 williaum Thu, 28 Feb 2008 06:57:23 +0000 http://www.urbanscout.org/bureaucracy-vs-rewilding/#comment-8982 WE'RE HERE WE'RE QUEER THOSE GODDAMN DAMS MUST DISAPPEAR!!! WE’RE HERE
WE’RE QUEER
THOSE GODDAMN DAMS
MUST DISAPPEAR!!!

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