More importantly, our population is almost 7 billion and there’s no way we could all feed ourselves by hunting. Factory farming also consumes far more plants (corn and soy to feed the animals) for what it produces. You can get the same protein, calories, vitamins, and minerals, for MUCH CHEAPER, if you eat fortified grains and legumes.

Population growth dynamics do not follow supply and demand. That’s an economic, social structure. When there is a large supply of food for a particular species, its population will grow to match that. In our case, we continue to make more food than we need and so continue to grow. This is what Daniel Quinn has coined the “food race.” More grain means more people.

You cannot live as a vegan in a bioregional, non agricultural economy. Even if you could, why would it matter? If you can live in equilibrium and not see animals as higher life forms than plants, or could craft a functioning ecosystem, you wouldn’t need to differentiate. It makes no sense. You cannot grow protein and minerals found in animals, that humans need.

I think this forgets about the fundamental force that drives world economies: the Law of Supply and Demand. If people go vegan, yes, there will be grain freed up. But since there will be less demand for grain from vegans than there would be from meat eaters there will be less grain grown.

Scout’s other point: vegans don’t eat from their region.

True, but neither do most omnivores. This misses the point that vegans, and omnivores, could eat food from local sources. This slighly depends on where the person is. The person in Scout’s piece that calls for shipping tofu to the Inuit makes no sense. But the climate where many people live could support the crops necessary to nourish a person. I live in central NC and I could get all of my food from farms within a 150-200 mile radius, with most of the food able to be grown within 20 feet of my backyard.

Scout’s other point: the introduction of grain-based diets led to higher rates of disease.

This might be right, I’m not doubting him, I just haven’t read anything (yet) on this subject.

A common pattern within civilization is one has to think themselves as above other human beings and other life forms. Ones behavior in support of said civilization might be called into question and civilization may suffer as a consequence should folks actually see themselves as a part of all other life on this planet instead of being separate and thus, SUPERIOR, to other life forms and in the case of humans who create civilization…other humans. It makes it much easier to do in-human things to your fellow human beings if you do not see them as humans. As I read “Culloden,” it is clear the Brits and the Lowland Scots thought themselves much higher than the Highlanders and therefore enacted the Highland Clearances, slaughtering and torturing many a Highlander in the name of a FUCKING KING! (Some things never change).

Vegans seem to have the same mindset that brought us civilization. Vegans are above all other human beings and all other life forms. Vegans are the kings and queens of the world by simple dietary choice. They are often missionaries, and missionaries have done more to SLAUGHTER native cultures than ever to help them as it is truly their mission to further CIVILIZATION! I have witnessed many a vegan use verbal and emotional abuses to get their messages across. They seem to consider these forms of violence to be non-violence, like they seem to consider their dietary choice as making them superior to all others who do not have the same dietary choice. So, like civilized society, they use forms of FORCE to get their message across and COLONIZE the minds of others. …just like civilization.

Racism is a part of civilized society. Without it, the Brits might have carried some form of humanity and compassion to the Highlander Scots, the Indians of America, the Indians of India, Africans, Arabs, and all over the world. But that would not have furthered civilization and privilege. Calling other races their “lessers” would indeed help further that privilege and civilization. And the same pattern is seen amongst vegans. Other races, especially meat eating races, especially indigenous races, are lessers because they eat meat and have done so for millions of years. Racism…it’s what’s for dinner.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it repeatedly throughout the rest of my fucking life: “Being vegan doesn’t make you holy, it only makes you vegan.”

And to paraphrase Monty Python and the Holy Grail, this one goes out to you, vegans: “Who lobbed a scimitar in your general direction and made you our king or queen?”

Anyway, thanks for putting a smile on my face today!

Scout

So, sorry about that – I just get a kick out of reading your responses – yours was almost word-for-word the same as mine to my friend.

FWIW, I also went through a stage years ago when I decided to become a vegan as a protest against industrial farming, until I realized that I felt perpetually hungry and exhausted. As for now, I don’t eat much actual meat any more. That is, all the “healthy” types of meat – prime-cut steaks with the fat carefully trimmed off, skinless chicken breasts and lean lamb (which is a great oxymoron, anyway). I only go for the offcuts – bits of meat that fall off the (usually free) bones when I cook them for broth and the fat that’s cut off the prime bits that other people pay a fortune for (which I end up getting for nothing but a strange look from the butcher). As well as being nutritionally superior, its way cheaper.

Another thing that I haven’t heard any people mention… even if you were to pass a free one to these vegans and pretend that plants don’t have feelings, how about the animals ON the plants that vegans eat? You know, microscopic animals. Especially in regards to fermented foods. Although if militant vegans can argue that plants don’t have feelings, then why would they give a shit about stuff you can’t see?

Take care. Love reading your blog.

When I first read your letter I thought that you were being ironically condescending and ignorant. But you didn’t end with a smiley face that says, “Just Kidding,” So I’ll assume you meant everything you said…

Obviously you have read a piece of vegan propaganda which assists in explaining why people blindly accept Veganism. A simple study of archaeological bone sites show that health problems such as the ones you speak of heart problems and cholesterol come from the introduction of grain based diets. Your comments about fat being “bad” are so out-dated it’s quite unbelievable. Here are some links on the decline of health with the introduction of grains:

http://anthropik.com/2006/01/thesis-21-civilization-makes-us-sick/
http://www.westonaprice.org/traditional_diets/native_americans.html
http://www.thepaleodiet.com/published_research/

Also many books on the subject:
The Paleo Diet
The Body Ecology Diet
Nourishing Traditions
Neanderthin

One of my best friends is a qualified naturopath. He would laugh at what that one said; the point being that it was merely propaganda. Any expert can say anything they want off hand, that doesn’t make it “true.” What makes it the most accurate representation of reality is when we look at the evidence. Your naturopath is lying or ignorant to the mounting evidence contrary to his knowledge. Thankfully, my naturopath is not!

Secondly, the whole growing Goji berries thing is ridiculous and again shows how you vegans have no sense of place and bioregion. You can just import a foreign species and call it sustainable because you’re not pouring pesticides on it. There are berries here in my bio-region that are just as healthy if not more than Goji berries. How about I restore my bio-region rather than importing plants that have no place or history here. How about learning about your own bioregion before importing and growing foreign plants.

Not everyone thinks Einstein was that smart, I sure don’t. All you have done here is regurgitated bullshit vegan propaganda that has been debunked a million times over. You are the reason I keep writing these anti-vegan blogs.

concetto….I don’t know what to say to you, except that your comment was hilarious at best, and also very sad…for you. Have a great day.

May I take the liberty of referring you to a study done by Kari Norgarrd, Ph.D. on the adverse effects of deviating from a millenia-old diet of the Karuk First Nation (of which I am an enrolled member) here in the U.S.? Try to read it with neutral, not pro-vegan, lenses and you will learn that a diet that includes high intake of MEAT, in this case salmon, is actually far healthier for these folks than other diets. Just look it up online.

Shusli

If you could use your computer to see into my parallel universe, you would observe me giving you a STANDING OVATION for your well-reasoned response to the vegan. Especially, I like the defense of indigenous cultures.

Sincerely,

Shusli

It always helps me to remember that energy is never created or destroyed, only gifted from one to another. Take care.

Sounds like she was calling to pick a fight anyway.