Comments on: Science Vs. Rewilding

By: Kid Cutbank

Kid Cutbank — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:37:29 +0000

WOW, i didn’t notice that the little discussion above was from 2007. Hmm, oh well. Can’t wait for your book scout.

-Kid Cutbank

By: Kid Cutbank

Kid Cutbank — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:15:11 +0000

“Pornography–cousin to surveillance, and bastard child of science–requires the same dynamic of watcher and watched, the same dyad of unchanged subject gazing at an object to be explored at an emotional distance, the same relationship of powerful viewer looking at powerless object.”

I don’t think that the point Jensen was making was in any way “anti-sex”. It’s about relationships vs. forms of domination (regardless if that domination takes place in physical reality or in front of a monitor). It’s about this culture’s perversions of sexual connection and how they have become fundamentally abusive.

I feel that this whole debate on libraries is pretty irrelevant and definitely not the biggest question we need to be asking ourselves. While libraries do hold very important information, they are unsustainable in their modern context. They are buildings, like any other, so why would they be any less destructive than the rest. I agree that the content is extremely useful and important but i wonder if you think it’s more important than the wild area entombed beneath it… Gathering information and sharing stories have been around far before civilization and can of course take place outside of the modern library. Similarly, books are very helpful yet the manufacturing of books is still destructive and unsustainable. But, of course, that’s not anywhere near the most vital issues we could be talking about.

To Urban Scout: Great article! I love your critiques on all these artifacts and ideas of civilization. Very inspiring…
Keep up the amazing work.

Kid Cutbank

By: klooglesornpelk

klooglesornpelk — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 13:16:48 +0000

Why is he so rabid about porn, then? Why is he about guilting civilization? Why is he about how hard we have to work?

You want pointing? “Pornography–cousin to surveillance, and bastard child of science–requires the same dynamic of watcher and watched, the same dyad of unchanged subject gazing at an object to be explored at an emotional distance, the same relationship of powerful viewer looking at powerless object.”

Come on. Cousin to surveillance? That’s a little rabid and overboard. Photography or painting in itself is not evil. People have been painting for tens of thousands of years. Depicting sexuality, or enjoying depictions of sexuality, need not be problematic at all.

And who said the art “of civilization”? The libraries are full of poetry, stories, music, and art of people like you and me, of indigenous peoples, of all kinds of important works that can enrich a life.

The whole idea of burning libraries is just stupid. Why would anyone do it? I certainly would defend a library against anyone so misguided as to try to attack it. The REAL way to “attack” a library is to get that which is living and trapped within those pages out into the real world where it can dance, recite, and live again. But in the meantime, much of value DOES lie locked up in there, and only a fool would destroy wealth of that kind. Especially when we live amongst people so pathologically impoverished on all kinds of levels. Libraries are full of books on how to rewild, on indigenous traditions that allow indigenous peoples to recreate their damaged cultures. Why would anyone even start with a target of a library? It seems silly to me.

By: Urban Scout

Urban Scout — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:02:53 +0000

Obviously I strongly disagree with your take on Jensens writing, and on (capitol S) Science. Where you would get “anti-sex” from anything Jensen has written blows my mind. I have read all of his works and tapes and I have conversed with him many times. I don’t see how anyone could get that out of it. Please point to specific examples.

And obviously I don’t give a shit about the art of civilization. I care about real relationships. How about that for an art? The art of living on this planet in way that meets everyones (human and other-than-human) needs. Things die. Art fades. Nothing is permanent. GET OVER IT.

By: Kloogle Sorpelk

Kloogle Sorpelk — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:30:35 +0000

Hi,

A couple comments :

1. Your ideas about tracking are fascinating.

2. Ridiculously anti-sex, anti-porn comments by neo-Calvinist and uber-moralist Derrick Jensen are most unconvincing of anything. It’s no wonder Jensen is against science ; it actually encourages critical thinking, which would be most destructive to his little self-congratulation society he’s got going based on his unscientific prophecies of what is to come. But, ok, I quibble over a small point on your page because of the reeking puritanism of Jensen’s irrational anti-porn position.

3. Burning of the libraries would be an immensely destructive thing. There is no reason to do it. Our artists are in there. Stories are in there. People who were otherwise losers but dreamt and wanting that dreaming to be passed on to us worked hard so that we might have that legacy. Since there is absolutely no reason whatsoever under any conditions to ever burn a library, I fail to understand why people see the need to contemplate it. I like books. I like books better than I like most people. And until people change, become more interesting, become capable of entertaining and informing me better than books (I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were you), then I’d rather be able to commune with great minds and great hearts from a distance when everyone around me is a stupid asshole.

But those are just my thoughts. YMMV

By: Burn the Libraries « Penny Scout: Adventures in Feral Failure

Burn the Libraries « Penny Scout: Adventures in Feral Failure — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 04:24:15 +0000

[…] Note: If you liked this entry check out Urban Scout’s blog: Tracking Trumps Science. […]

By: Gabe

Gabe — Thu, 25 Jan 2007 23:30:20 +0000

p.s. sorry about that blurb at the end that doesn’t make sense. it’s clipping from my 1st draft that I didn’t delete! Also I want to point out that leafcutter ants cultivate their own food by farming mold. They literally are farmers of mold.

By: Gabe

Gabe — Thu, 25 Jan 2007 23:26:18 +0000

Hey man - not every book in a library is “science.” It’s fine that you personally won’t be troubled by a library burning down, but that’s you homie. Most of the people in the world would benefit greatly from visiting the library a lot more. Maybe they’d discover some books about “primitive skills” or things you’re into. Don’t tell me you never went to the library or bookstore once along your philosophical journey to becoming an “urban scout!” It’s cool that you feel you’ve found an infinitely more authentic method of understanding the world (tracking) instead of science, but give people a little room homie! Give folks the space and access to information that you had in your journey.
I grew up in the suburbs of Utah. The library saved my ass from ignorance. Not everyone has access to a tracker or even knows there is such a thing.
So what I’m saying is, I think the idea of a library burning down should trouble you, if not because it threatens your access to information and so survival, but because it threatens the access of your brothers and sisters to information that can be useful for their survival.
It’s great that you’re an urban scout - but what’s the point without a tribe? without a planet? Encourage the people in their search homie!

- Gabe

I won’t argue that for you, tracking makes science irrelevant. But how many trackers do you know homes? or “Jesus” or “the Nazi Party” is better than books is called Fascism

By: martha

martha — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 19:29:47 +0000

I gave you that foucalt book about the prisons right? Did you ever read it? Jenson is pracically plagerizing the book - nt that there is anything wrong with plagerizing (sp?). You should read it if you haven’t. Anyway, great entry. Well written.
Although not completly on the topic, I was thinking about the fda’s decision to allow cloned meat to be consumed. Everyone is all up in arms about the “ethics” involved. But a lot of the time these aren’t the same people who are also into animal rights. It’s like we’re already factory farming animals, trapping them inside in a warehouse for their whole life, what difference does it make that we’re gonna start cloning them? I don’t feel like people have a lot perspective. The real danger is further mono-crop, mono-genetic strain etc. It’s like the more we try to control nature the further we set ourselves up for catastrophe. Instead of asking ourselves why we are putting all our eggs in one basket, we just keep trying to build a better basket and pile more and more eggs in it… okay. Not sure if that made any sense. But I hope you catch my drift.

By: urbanscout

urbanscout — Mon, 15 Jan 2007 05:29:52 +0000

Haha. It’s amazing how the quality of my writing improves when I actually spend some time editing it.

Nice toilet paper story.

By: PennyScout

PennyScout — Mon, 15 Jan 2007 04:12:19 +0000

I never got panicky like that when thinking about burning libraries. Other people certainly do though. You can really get yourself into trouble bashing like libraries, buddhists, indians, travel abroad, and your roommates as you watch them dig their way out of a snowstorm to drive a quarter mile to school and then you call them “poor fuckers, married to their cars” in the house journal. okay i guess that last one is kinda valid but i might mention that being fuckers is not the point they argued. they argued being married to their cars.
“It’s not even my car I’m just borrowing it from my sister, and I need it to get to work,” Brandi said.
“But because it is there you use it when you don’t need it to, like to drive to class or to City Market to pick up one roll of toilet paper. I don’t have a car so I always walk to class and to the store and it’s no problem,” I said.
“That’s why we never have any toilet paper, you’re too lazy to go buy it.”
At this point I realized she was totally right. That’s when I started stealing toilet paper from the college.

p.s. Does your girlfriend proofread these entries for you? Seriously, you’ve been a good writer since I’ve known you, but these entries must take some time. I’m impressed by the quality and relative lack of typos.

By: asa

asa — Sat, 13 Jan 2007 06:25:34 +0000

“Of the estimated 80,000,000,000 men who have ever lived out a life span on earth, over 90% have lived as hunter and gatherers, about 6% have lived by agriculture, and the remaining few percent have lived in industrial societies. To date, the hunting way of life has been the most successful and persistent adaptation man has ever achieved”
- Lee and Devore (1968)

and who says school ‘aint inspiring sometimes? oxo, a.